Comments on: Tim Berners-Lee on Net Neutrality: “This is serious” http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/ Blog, news, books Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:56:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8.2 By: assman http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16741 Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:43:17 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16741 Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t the net neutrality debate fundamentally about one thing: eliminating price discrimination. Price discrimination is the practice where a monopoly charges people different amounts based on their ability to pay (kind of like progressive taxation charged by the government monopoly). I don’t see what’s so bad about that.

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By: ACS http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16740 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:49:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16740 By the way

Josh and Poptones:

Have you ever wondered why the police sort of laugh when you only give your name? Its because you can go under an alias in “meatspace”. I dont see why there is this imperative need to push for certification of someones identity.

TO me (and many others who have read this site in the last few months) poptones is not identified by his social security number or birth certificate, rather, he is identified by his paranoia and anti government protests.

No harm in withholding this information: How do we know Josh Zeider is your real name.

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By: poptones http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16739 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:25:47 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16739 poptones is a real person in the sense that Ronald McDonald is a real person.

What a quaint understanding of the internet.

I am not of the myspace generation, so sorry if my desire for a certain amount of privacy offends you. But have no fear: the shrub administration (and apparently most of washington) is on your side: soon no one will be able to post to “the internets” without a permit and proper traceable credentials.

Oooh, but what will you do then, stripped of your imagined safety within a lame, pathologically transparent excuse for evading meaningful rebuttals to your misguided and misinformed rhetoric?

If my comments mean nothing to you, then why do you repeatedly reply to them? Obviously, you are feeling threatened at some level. What I fail to understand is why: I agree with you and you express redeemption, then I offer only the most tangential and impersonal criticism of your stated position and you turn against me like a rabid raccoon?

Dude… grow a pair.

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By: ACS http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16738 Sun, 02 Jul 2006 23:59:45 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16738 TO Josh Zeider

It seems as though we do agree that the disparate regulations inhibits with free market capitalism in the telco arena. I think it is clear there will be a multitude of different providers. The NN question essential covers thier roles and whether they will be allowed to enter into a massive free for all or whether it is going to be socialism on the net.

What side of the debate do you actually think the telcos are on for gods sake.

Technically, I dont disagree with you but from the previous posts I can see why you disagree with me.

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16737 Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:30:35 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16737 Meatspace? you mean the place where people are born and die and actually have to be held accountable for what they say? What a novel concept! Experts agree, meatspace is where its at.

poptones is a real person in the sense that Ronald McDonald is a real person.

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By: poptones http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16736 Sat, 01 Jul 2006 06:16:42 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16736 Secondly, for those of you who repeatedly post here anonymously…

Do some basic research and get your head out of the old world. You may not know my meatspace name, but I am far from “anonymous.” I have a slushdot profile, I have thousands of posts at ars technica, I have posted on usenet – I may not be “famous” but many people know me well enough to either love me or hate me no matter where “I” go.

Poptones is, in this context, a “person.” You want to know my “real name?”

I am poptones.

Look it up.

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16735 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:59:39 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16735 ok… can you tell me the actual names of :

threeblindmice( you )
poptones
pelo

i just like to keep track of everyone involved… thanks jmz

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By: three blind mice http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16734 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:48:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16734 USE YOUR ACTUAL IDENTITY

WE ARE.

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16733 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 17:42:49 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16733 three blind mice,

I made a statement, that I believe is valid, has yet to be disproved, and I was accused of being on drugs. Read the posts. It would appear from recent statements made by political leaders that many agree with me.

Secondly, for those of you who repeatedly post here anonymously: if you are serious, and you take Prof. Lessig seriously, and these issues seriously, USE YOUR ACTUAL IDENTITY. none of you risk anything by posting your opinions here and therefore I do not appreciate them.

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By: Paul M http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16732 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:57:28 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16732 I believe this horse is dead, let’s stop beating on it and move on. New developments have occurred and I think its time for a new post from the Prof. After this line of comments the only respectable poster with any shred of decency is the mice. No wonder they are still stoning people for crimes, human nature begs agression, no matter how intelligent.

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By: three blind mice http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16731 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 06:26:21 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16731 it is a pity to see this blog descend into slashdot hell.

sincerely josh zeidner, if you have something to say can’t it be said without the ad hominen bit? you may not agree with poptones – poptones doesn’t even agree with itself all of the time – but please don’t accuse poptones of technical ignorance. poptones has an impressive track record in this blog, poptones knows how the internets works, and it reflects poorly on you to suggest that poptones’ views are based on ignorance.

how did three blind mice become lessig’s eternal defender?

we haven’t, pelo, and posting it twice doesn’t make it true. as any regular visitor to this site knows, we are among the harshest critics of professor lessig’s views.

but here’s the essential part: our disagreement with professor lessig’s VIEWS, doesn’t mean we are critics of HIM. on the contrary, we mice are big fans of the professor. by raising these issues and writing about them and providing this forum to discuss them, we all become better informed.

it is up to all of us to keep this playground clean, tidy, and safe for all us children. all we ask/demand is a little decorum and respect for each other in these discussions: play nice.

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By: daiyun http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16730 Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:50:11 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16730 I’m trying to fight the comment spam bots. Type “human” here

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16729 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:06:37 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16729 Well amidst the elightening edifice of peanut gallery remarks concerning drug use and beastility, I do have a legitimate question…

Exactly what part of my claims are you saying are outrageous?

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By: poptones http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16728 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:37:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16728 I agree with Richard now…

You’re too high. Time to give it up.

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16727 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:38:36 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16727 ACS, the big telcos would not be supporting this situation if there were not a significant barrier to entry( either by capital or policy ) to the network provider market. These barriers must exist for it to make any level of sense for the telcos to get involved in this debate.

The NN camps tend to concentrate on the QoS argument but tend to defalte the real and actual parameters of the current communications technology market. Do you really think the future will be that of a multitude of providers? It is super cheap to make and run this stuff. In a normal environment, various market actors would step in with financially and technologicall progressive proposals. This is not happening due to a wide variety a disparate and confusing regulations and deals that make little sense under the ‘free market’ rubric. The fact is that there is a hidden player in the equation. See all my posts above.

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By: ACS http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16726 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:36:28 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16726 Jeez you guys. You are all worried about control and power but really this debate is about the provision of different services.

Network neutrality works in favour of the lower half of telco customers because they are provided with a uniform service. On the other hand the upper half are pulled back down to the standards of the uniform service. That form of regulation will affect the quality of access available to the public.

I think we would all agree that it is the premium services in society that improve technology and cause innovation. Innovation is very rarely achieved where a standard service is imposed.

There is quite likely an advantage to allowing big telcos access to our networks including higher speed internet or specialised software and services, but all you guys complain about is that Disney is going to spy on you! Hell, google has been doing that for years.

In this debate it is most likely the NN advocates are simply trying to ensure that uncle Walt doesnt check on their child pornography collection. (No offence).

I think this issue should be met in the market. If people want a no-spying, high speed, easily affordable telco then one will pop up. Its the nature of capitalism.

The fact is that you and I dont own the networks. They are owned by the telcos. We should accept this fact and start making demands for a better service rather than using the government to regulate the industry. Why leave power in Washington (or Canberra as the case may be) when the power is really in the sleeping giant of the consumer.

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16725 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:57:19 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16725 pelo, all i ask is that you or anyone else take my comments into consideration, check up on them, and be a consciencious citizen. thats it. i generally think the problem is that some parties have gotten too out of hand with seizing control of various agencies in the government. Yes, its true i am suggesting that there is a bit of collusion going on here… im sure it comes as a shock that there may be people in government positions who are not exactly faithful and trustworthy civil servants.

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By: pelo http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16724 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:19:22 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16724 i just think all your comments are pointless ramblings. you guys can’t change anything, get over it- we’re doomed!

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16723 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:38:46 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16723 poptones,

just for the benefit of the readers on this list:

I have no idea what youre talking about. anyone who knows anything about my politics can say that I am anything but a left-wing chauvinist. From what I can make out you appear to be a Cliff Claven type character, and I probably wont respond to your posts anymore. thanks, jmz

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By: poptones http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16722 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:21:11 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16722 Methinks pelo needs to get out of his chair and flip the record over – it seems to be stuck on the same tune….

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By: pelo http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16721 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:28:11 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16721 me thinks poptones, josh and richard need to find something construvtive to do with their time! there’s actually quite a few of y’all that are way too dramatic about this particular issue. how did three blind mice become lessig’s eternal defender? when will the sad truth that none of the “debates” on this blog will ever influence anyone in washington? how can anyone take the issues talked about on this blog seriously in the face of a facist goverment? how can we be so complacent? how can fear of the state control not only technology, but people’s conception of reality? the war in iraq, net neutrality, global warming… these are not issues that any of us have any control over unless we take the power back from the government. the idea of infiltrating government with “good” will never work. is lessig a revolutionary? no. he’s a constitutionalist! he believes in the slave owners words (he hides behind his forefathers bloody hands)! being un-american will make for a better world… i thought i’d post again to place reality in a sea of fantasy!

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By: poptones http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16720 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:43:10 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16720 This thing is going to come down to Dems vs. GOP.

Man, Josh, you almost get it, but then don’t seem able to get past your own political bigotries…

It’s NOT about dems vs GOP, it never was. Who is at the frontline in clamping down on porn? It’s not jsut the white house or the GOP – it’s Hillary and Leiberman and Specter and…

The pols want their jobs, and to keep them they must serve the channels of control. That should be the american people, right? but it isn’t – because we’re all living in the world of Fox news and MSNBC and Disney, and they’re not about to deliver an empowering message to the people – that would cost viewers, whcih means lost dollars, which means lost revenue for shareholders – and that is, literally, illegal for corporations to do.

Can you not see this is the perfect storm of new technology, terrorism, fear of the boogeymen who will sneak into the house through the wires and rape and steal your children?

Big brother wants control and we have a conservative leadership right now that is bent on “wiping out evil” so they can make the world a better place for their sky daddy – but the “liberals” are on that very same front! There isn’t a pol in this country who won’t claim to embrace “american values” and jump on the bandwagon when it comes to to crack down on the imaginary “evildoers.” And how do you do that in this country? By controlling the minds of the people – by embracing the corporations that think for them.

The “left” in this country is just as married to the church and the corporations as the right, and the Hillaries and the Leibermans want the chance to control the minds of the proletariat just as much as the right, and for all the same reasons. It was on Clinton’s watch we opened the door to censorship on the net, and it was his vice president who wanted every digital communications device to have an encryption system that dialed home to big brother – remember?

There is big money in oppression – everyone from washington to the state prisons to the county police profit from oppression. Locales that have debated closing prisons have met with picketing prison guards, upset about the possibility of being put out of work! Government no longer serves the people, it serves itself – control, fear, doubt, uncertainty – keep the sheeple in line and let the idealogues battle it out every four years… after all, even when they lose, they still win. Just ask john Kerry.

By being so hung up on “right vs left” you are playing right into the hands of the controllers. There is no left in this country – it’s just the right vs. the further right. The red and the blue are really just two shades of oppression in the same can of unmixed purple paint.

http://www.austinuu.org/sermons/loehr051301.html

http://counterpunch.org/pariah03042006.html

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16719 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:00:03 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16719 interestingly, for my connection to get to Uruguay, it must go to Morristown, NJ, to Alberquerque, back to NJ, to Texas, to Florida, back to Texas, to Tennessee, to Temple Georgia and then to Montevideo.

try a trace to http://www.industry.gov.iq . ICMP packets are blocked past jump #15. which is in Houston, Texas.

Who built this thing?

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16718 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:46:33 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16718 this tool will allow you to see a geographical trace your IP packet routes. For the laymen these are the points in actual space that your information moves through to get to the destination. Whomever owns or ‘controls’ each of these nodes has the ability( not necessarily legally ) to record, interpret, sell or otherwise utilize all the data that you send through the internet.

The Mapulator

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By: Josh Zeidner http://www.lessig.org/2006/06/tim-bernerslee-on-net-neutrali/#comment-16717 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:17:10 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/tim_bernerslee_on_net_neutrali.html#comment-16717 here you go America:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,70908-0.html

In 2003 AT&T built “secret rooms” hidden deep in the bowels of its central offices in various cities, housing computer gear for a government spy operation which taps into the company’s popular WorldNet service and the entire internet. These installations enable the government to look at every individual message on the internet and analyze exactly what people are doing. Documents showing the hardwire installation in San Francisco suggest that there are similar locations being installed in numerous other cities.

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