Comments on: the “discussion” will be webcast http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/ Blog, news, books Tue, 10 Oct 2017 06:01:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8.2 By: ملیحه پورنامداری http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-49665 Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:51:00 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-49665 very good.
http://razinaclass.com/
دانلود کتاب صوتی کودک

]]>
By: simplisticton http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18093 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:50:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18093 I’m really bummed that I missed the webcast because of the username/password thing — which wasn’t posted anywhere else besides here that I could find (and stupid me, I didn’t think to check here!).

I really hope someone (Wired?) makes this available for download like they did with “Who Owns Culture?”. It would have been so neat to see the debate as it took place, though.

]]>
By: Ygor Valerio http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18092 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:55:24 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18092 I vote for the transcription!

]]>
By: Imre Simon http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18091 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:42:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18091 I managed to view 2/3 of the debate only (it took me 40min to find out the user/passwd combination; my sincere thanks to those who posted the secret here).

I would like to ask for the availability of this debate for on-demand playing. Would that be possible?

I heard great arguments on both sides, though, personally, I am rooting for the ample availability of this new indexing capability and most certainly liked best the interventions coming from the right side of the table. But clearly very important issues are being intensely discussed here.

It would be enlightening to have a transcript of the debate, so that posterity could rely on the arguments and questions raised at this early stage of the discussion. Would that be possible?

]]>
By: maya http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18090 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:07:21 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18090 Hi,
I missed the stream – is there an download out there or another stream cuz I’d love love love to here it.

although it may cause me to rage a bit — oh well a nice glass of wine pre-listening may help out

moose from cda

]]>
By: icecow http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18089 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:12:37 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18089 Why should google be able to do this?

Because it’s flat out progress.
The thesis of copyright law is to maximize access to materials and create a mechanism to spawn new works. There is no deficit of new works. It’s the access that needs to be improved. Google Print gives exposure to independent writers and artists and improves access to the public of the entire nation. The pennies google gets for positioning a prospective buyer directly in front of an independent author’s work is better then any normed publisher will do. The notion that the pennies impact the authors is rediculous. You could run around town trying to get people to look at your book and buy it, perhaps pay for an ad. Then someone walks up to your door and says ‘this guy read a paragraph of your book and is considering buying it. I don’t mind bringing him because he also looked at my neighbers car and my neighbor gave me a nickel’ Are you going to start up saying how violated you are? How you had no right to read a paragraph to the guy? You could say it’s different because doing the equivlant online is requires much less effort and the nickel profit is highly repeatable. I’d answer: Exactly. Do you want to live in a cave?

]]>
By: Peter Rock http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18088 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:42:31 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18088 Mice:

in short, google intends to derive economic benefit from the content of copyrighted books…

Yes.

…without the obligation to share this economic benefit with the creator of the content.

Of course. Since there is no reason for an obligation to exist then this is as it should be.

this stinks.

Interesting opinion. Can you explain it?

the promised benefit to the authors – that more books would be sold – is completely irrelevant to google.

Of course. Should it be relevant to Google?

the sad fact that civil liberties groups are ready to give away the rights of individuals to giant corporations in the name of freedom is a particular irony.

This is interesting. I too, am very wary of corporate interests. However, I don’t think that, in this case, this is something to be afraid of in the immediate moment. However, I do see a future of electronic books with individual rights to read being compromised by the perverse endorsement of technological “protection” measures (i.e. trusted computing/drm). And unfortunately, because Google’s motto of “Don’t Be Evil” is utterly meaningless and romantic, Google will endorse and promote whatever is in Google’s best interest. In this case, I worry. But we have not yet reached that stage. However, this potential future problem is not reason enough to claim that what Google is doing now is harmful, unlawful, or that they have an “obligation” to share profit. As I said before, Google’s immediate business plan is not in direct competition with the existing publishers/authors.

I wish people would just be honest. The fact is, Google is doing nothing wrong. However, because Google is a multi-billion dollar corporate giant, it may well be worthwhile to gather a bunch of “lawyers” in an attempt to extort money. However, in order to win such a case, those pursuing such litigatin can’t just be upfront and honest – they will have to create specters – ghost-like “reasons” as to why they should cash in. And they have to act like they believe in these reasons – at least until the case is over.

I’d rather see the court not award cash to anyone, but severly restrict Google’s rights over the database they create. Say – “no, you don’t have to pay anyone to do this. Go ahead, create it, use it, but you must be forced to free that copy (and all future copies) to any institution that wishes to use the database for the same purpose.” That is, the database effectively becomes a part of the commons. Restrict its commerciality use so publishers can still obtain the monopoly rights to print/sell books, and everyone wins.

]]>
By: David Riordan http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18087 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:17:07 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18087 Any chance this will be put online in full at some point? I missed the webcast (exam, otherwise I’d have gone) and I’m hoping to see what looks like was an incredible event.

]]>
By: Akshay http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18086 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:57:55 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18086 I can connect (thanks to the usn/pwd). The connection sometimes times out though and I have to spend a few minutes trying to reconnect.

]]>
By: scola http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18085 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:48:45 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18085 This working for anybody else? It came in and then cut back out on me.

]]>
By: dansays http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18084 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:48:21 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18084 Is anyone else getting audio? Because, I’m not getting any audio. This makes it really difficult to hear what everyone is saying.

]]>
By: scola http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18083 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:28:19 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18083 Oh I get it now! Username=quicktime and password=quicktime. Works. Sweet. Thanks.

]]>
By: scola http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18082 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:26:18 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18082 I’ve emailed the folks who seem to be hosting it (http://smartleydunn.com). Let you know what I hear.

]]>
By: Akshay http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18081 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:25:13 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18081 Thanks!

]]>
By: DGP http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18080 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:20:00 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18080 quicktime
quicktime

worked!!!!!!

]]>
By: Akshay http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18079 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:16:58 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18079 I’m being asked for a username/password to watch the webcast, but nowhere has anyone ever told me what I should enter…

]]>
By: scola http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18078 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:16:29 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18078 Me neither. Asking for a username and password.

]]>
By: Dan http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18077 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:12:13 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18077 Is this working for anyone? I can’t get the stream to play…

]]>
By: one sighted mouse http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18076 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:27:07 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18076 The only advertising on the Google Print pages for copyrighted books is, in fact, advertising for the books in question, as produced by the authorized publishers.

Google will need to tread lightly, on a matter slightly separated from what has been discussed – if they deal only with a select few on-line booksellers, such as Amazon, they risk attaining trust status. They really need to be able to provide links to every bookseller who makes it known to Amazon that they have a web page through which Google can make links directly to the book in question, and from which would-be customers can order directly.

Does Google stand to make money? Yes.
Does the publisher stand to lose money? Not likely.
Does the publisher stand to gain money? Yes.
Does the author stand to gain money? Depends on the contract the author has with the publisher, but probably yes.

Is there any way a publisher could lose money? I see two ways: 1. the publisher opts out. 2. the publisher has made deals with one or more on-line bookstores which reduce the amount those bookstores pay for the publisher’s books. Note that both of these ways requires action or prior action on the part of the publisher, or potentially a large section of the publisher’s authors.

]]>
By: anonymous http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18075 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:30:54 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18075 Google has already demonstrated its willingness to engage in willful copyright infringement by copying entire works without authorization or compensation. It is foolish to expect that Google will not further unlawfully exploit the entire scanned works it will amass:

Google Eyeing Online Book Renting?
http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=69187&cat_id=643

The Google Print initiative began with discussion with publishers and authors to work out a licensing agreement, but Google went renegade. I expect the same here.

]]>
By: three blind mice http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18074 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:39:10 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18074 Peter Rock again you fail to see copyright for what it is: an economic device. consider the propostion Fabio Capela puts forth:>”I want to put a small excerpt from a book in a web page it’s perfectly legal under the fair use exceptions. The results Google will present to users, showing a few words on both sides of the researched term, will be completely legal, specially if Google keeps it’s promisse to not put advertisement in the Google Print results and to impose technological restraints that make it impossible to retrieve even a single complete page from copyrighted books, and even the people that are fighting Google know this.”

there is a difference in using a short excerpt from a copyrighted work in a book, article, or website and the wholesale copying of a copyrighted work to create a searchable index.

google wants to create a database of books – not to sell books – but to draw internet users to its portals so that it may sell biased and linked search results and, of course, advertising. in short, google intends to derive economic benefit from the content of copyrighted books without the obligation to share this economic benefit with the creator of the content. this stinks. the promised benefit to the authors – that more books would be sold – is completely irrelevant to google.

the sad fact that civil liberties groups are ready to give away the rights of individuals to giant corporations in the name of freedom is a particular irony.

]]>
By: Peter Rock http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18073 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:19:14 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18073 Mice:

google is just another publisher. a giant, global, paradigm shifting publisher who prefers to appropriate from authors through statute instead of negotiate with authors under market conditions.

I’m failing to see what it is Google is appropriating. Of what is Google taking ownership of?

]]>
By: Fabio Capela http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18072 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:41:49 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18072 Unless by “extortion” you are refering to the fact that books in the Google index will most certainly sell more, which may make life harder for those who opt out of Google Print, I don’t see how Google can be extortint anyone with its Google Print project. Anyone that don’t want their books in this project can just tell so to Google.

It’s even possible that Google Print will enable authors to negotiate in better terms with publishers, since they will be less dependant on them for publicity.

Besides, if I want to put a small excerpt from a book in a web page it’s perfectly legal under the fair use exceptions. The results Google will present to users, showing a few words on both sides of the researched term, will be completely legal, specially if Google keeps it’s promisse to not put advertisement in the Google Print results and to impose technological restraints that make it impossible to retrieve even a single complete page from copyrighted books, and even the people that are fighting Google know this. The one complain they are making is that in order for this project to be functional Google will need to keep complete electronic versions of the books, even though these electronic versions will not be accessible to users.

]]>
By: three blind mice http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18071 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:22:50 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18071 Peter Rock, it would seem to us that google, with the aid and assistance of starry-eyed commonsists, is the one doing the extortion.

a copyright confers economic power to individuals. in practice, an author’s copyright is what enables her to negotiate with publishers. authors are human beings. citizens.

google is just another publisher. a giant, global, paradigm shifting publisher who prefers to appropriate from authors through statute instead of negotiate with authors under market conditions.

and under the flag of “fair use” the commons-ists run to the defense of the commercial giant.

to call it extortion is to be too kind.

]]>
By: Peter Rock http://www.lessig.org/2005/11/the-discussion-will-be-webcast/#comment-18070 Thu, 17 Nov 2005 05:44:05 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/11/the_discussion_will_be_webcast.html#comment-18070 Mice:

this is the question: why should google be able to derive commercial benefit from a copyrighted work without obligation to share this commercial gain with the author?

Because they are – as you say – “deriv[ing]” commercial gain rather than competing directly with it. If a publisher has a deal with a copyright owner to act as the exclusive printer of that book, I am competing directly with that publisher if I print my own copy and then sell it. But this is clearly not what Google is doing. So to answer your question, Google “should” be able to do this because they are clearly not competing/diminishing the financial incentive of the publishers/authors. Lawrence is totally correct when he metaphorically states that the plaintiffs are seeking to (ab)use copyright law to “extort” funds. Sure, the language is strong, but undeniably apt.

]]>